kosmo16 wrote:Median is a bad idea. Imagine situation with four 2000 elo players and five 1200 elo players in a one team. Median is 1200 and it's not fair. I think the arithmetic mean is the best option.
LRyuzakiL wrote:kosmo16 wrote:Median is a bad idea. Imagine situation with four 2000 elo players and five 1200 elo players in a one team. Median is 1200 and it's not fair. I think the arithmetic mean is the best option.
They are planning on using the median ELO? This update is going to be even more of an abomination than I thought. I wouldn't be surprised if ranked ToS dies. Seasonal resets with no carry over and the fetish for ELO relativity (ELO of others affecting how much you gain/lose) is going to kill ranked. If they are going to do seasonal ELO, they need some sort of carry over effect. You should gain ELO at a higher rate next season if you did well in the previous season. For example, if you ended with double your starting ELO, your ELO gained for each win would be 2x the normal amount in the next season. If your ending ELO was 1.4x higher than your starting ELO, all your wins in the next season should be multiplied by 1.4 and rounded. If they don't use that system, you should at least gain back a portion of your ELO over 1200. So for example, if you were 1800 and the carry over was 25%, you'd get back 25% of 600 (1800 - 1200). You'd start the new season with 1350.
ELO is supposed to match people with players of about equal skill. Many people have spent hundreds/thousands of games to get out of the pool of bad players. Why the fuck should this continuously reset with no sort of carry over? Why make people earn it just to take it all away? If they are good, they can get it back, but they shouldn't have to put in the same amount of work over and over again just to regain the status they've already earned.
wozearly wrote:LRyuzakiL wrote:kosmo16 wrote:Median is a bad idea. Imagine situation with four 2000 elo players and five 1200 elo players in a one team. Median is 1200 and it's not fair. I think the arithmetic mean is the best option.
They are planning on using the median ELO? This update is going to be even more of an abomination than I thought. I wouldn't be surprised if ranked ToS dies. Seasonal resets with no carry over and the fetish for ELO relativity (ELO of others affecting how much you gain/lose) is going to kill ranked. If they are going to do seasonal ELO, they need some sort of carry over effect. You should gain ELO at a higher rate next season if you did well in the previous season. For example, if you ended with double your starting ELO, your ELO gained for each win would be 2x the normal amount in the next season. If your ending ELO was 1.4x higher than your starting ELO, all your wins in the next season should be multiplied by 1.4 and rounded. If they don't use that system, you should at least gain back a portion of your ELO over 1200. So for example, if you were 1800 and the carry over was 25%, you'd get back 25% of 600 (1800 - 1200). You'd start the new season with 1350.
ELO is supposed to match people with players of about equal skill. Many people have spent hundreds/thousands of games to get out of the pool of bad players. Why the fuck should this continuously reset with no sort of carry over? Why make people earn it just to take it all away? If they are good, they can get it back, but they shouldn't have to put in the same amount of work over and over again just to regain the status they've already earned.
One of the players suggested median, not BMG.
Elo relativity is an important consideration for some players - but just from chatting to various people in the game, I'd suggest quite a few primarily just want to be "high enough" that they get players who know what they're doing and not be matched with the blethering nonsense merchants, because games with fairly-to-very good players are typically a lot more rewarding and a lot more fun. So I agree that some form of proportional carry-over would make sense between seasons if there is to be resets.
What wouldn't make sense is giving a boost to ELO gain to people who currently have high ELO (and, in effect, an ELO malus to those who currently have low ELO), because that just reintroduces the actual confirmed bug in the ELO calculation by another mechanism and continues to reward and shaft the same people.
I entirely empathise with the short-term situation of the high elo players, and entirely agree that timing this with a reset would have been ideal, but we are where we are. Arguing against fixing the ELO bug is either madness, pure selfishness or misplaced anger (take your pick). Good players will continue to be at the upper levels of ELO, and be matched with other higher ELO players as a priority as they are currently. Only the absolute numbers change. And while I agree with Galactik's thinking and don't want to see the high ELO players shafted or feeling like they don't want to play, I can't personally get behind an argument to favour a small minority of players who are threatening not to play if an unintentional artificial advantage they benefit from is taken away.
LRyuzakiL wrote:I do think ELO needs a reset, I just also think that it very badly needs to be done right this time. Having no sort of carry over would be doing it wrong. I was unaware that there was a bug related to the ELO "bonus" I proposed. I would be fine with a certain percentage of your current ELO carrying over, but I think it should be a hefty potion. Seriously, what is the point in repeated resets of ELO? ELO says "here is a rough estimate of my skill level, match me with the same people." What does it accomplish to seasonally reset this? I proposed the "bonus gain" system so that players could more quickly get back to their appropriate skill level. If that isn't used, a serious portion of your ELO should be carried over each season. Although I still don't see why the hell it would even be seasonal. They should reset it, fix it, and leave it.
Meekz wrote:Why am i STILL getting +1 for werewolf wins?
Even if the player's i am up against are lower elo, it's unfair for ANY nk games to give +1 for a win... it's a waste of time
andixoxo wrote:You literally said all mafia were dead by D5, which means town had a fairly good play (unless you killed all mafia on nights 2 and 4, in which case you're the bad player).
kosmo16 wrote:andixoxo wrote:You literally said all mafia were dead by D5, which means town had a fairly good play (unless you killed all mafia on nights 2 and 4, in which case you're the bad player).
Mafioso was killed by Veteran N1, Godfather just left D2 and Random Mafia said he is the last member of Mafia D2. He was executed by Jailor N4.
Ajdemi wrote:Reset elo plz
kosmo16 wrote:andixoxo wrote:You literally said all mafia were dead by D5, which means town had a fairly good play (unless you killed all mafia on nights 2 and 4, in which case you're the bad player).
Mafioso was killed by Veteran N1, Godfather just left D2 and Random Mafia said he is the last member of Mafia D2. He was executed by Jailor N4.
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