Patch 1.5.9 Planned Changes

[Achilles]

Greetings Townies!

We are excited to announce a few of our planned role balance changes coming with the 1.5.9 patch (as well as Turkish queues!) Note: all of this is subject to change as we go through PTR testing and balancing.

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

Expect to see these changes hitting the PTR very soon and going live in the next few weeks!

Witch (buff)
The Witch will now see the role of the player they are controlling. This gives the Witch a lot more information to use their mind control powers more effectively as well as more role information to team up with evil roles or to trick the Town!

Transporter (change)
When a Transporter swaps two targets it will display who was swapped to everyone in the town. This change is to help remove some of the extreme chaos the transporter creates without changing the way the role works.

Limiting Trials Per Day to 3
Some players have been using multiple trials per day to extend day time phases longer than intended. This change will also prevent Mayors from being able to infinitely prolong games.

[Tugok]

How about elo?

[YamiChan]

I really don't like the Transporter one. I mean, it kind of causes a LOT of problems. The chaos that the Transporter causes is what makes it a double-edged sword, instead of just a mega-OP role. This chaos can help Town as well as hinder them, similar to the Vet. It can end up aiding the bad guys. An evil role benefits from being transed when someone wants to invest them. This sounds like something intended to nerf the Trans, but in reality, it just causes more problems for the bad guys, who people are always saying have really low win rates as it is.

I don't care much about the Witch change, but aren't you basically making the Witch an overpowered Consig?

[Nellyfox]

Don't like the witch or the transporter change, honestly. Part of the fun of being witch is figuring out who is what. This "buff" just makes it so easy, and doesn't help change witch's fragile state.

As for the transporter, it really doesn't do much except help confirm claimers.

[YamiChan]

Part of the fun of being witch is figuring out who is what.

Yeah, this too.

[Emmie737]

I think the witch change is wayyy too overpowered. As stated above, the witch would be an overpowered consig. The point of the witch is to cause chaos. Not to obliterate everybody.

[vitorsly]

I like the Disguiser changes, certainly makes it a not useless role.
For the Trans, I dislike this change. Trans has the ability to make mafia kill eachother and protect a vital town asset. They can make investigations confusing but it is up to the trans to keep a will and notice when sheriffs/invests are refering his targets to correct them.

Witch right now has one of the lowest win-rates adn I think this change would help a lot. Its okay for it be a "buffed consig" because consig is just "buffed invest". Difference is invest has help of town (big majority), consig has mafia (second most powerful group of players) and witch is alone until she finds mafia/NK, and even then why are willing to throw her under a bus to save themselves. And Consig can tell mafia roles during night, Witch only has whispers which are suspicious at best, and suicidal with a spy present.
That and consig can't be randomly killed by Mafia, while witch is instant loser if mafia or NK kills her before she can contact them.

[Ponny]

I think witch change is great. I almost always die to mafia/NK when a witch. This change may make the gameplay more balanced, and equal the evil's and town's chances to win.

[ZZ5405]

IMO a better witch change would be simply to tell the witch if who they controlled is a visiting role, so that they don't accidentally control a medium 4 nights in a row because they think the medium is a sheriff.

[xoxkatina]

the transporter change is horrible tbh

[ceejayzz]

I don't agree with the change for transporter. That takes away claiming trans as a role, which has actually won me a game as a WW. It makes so that if an evil gets transed, they can't say "nope I wasn't transed its really ___ who came up maf." It takes away a lot of the chaos which is a lot of how evils win. As trans, its easy to read evils when they don't claim transed either.

This is a silly change that helps town and makes it much harder for evils.

[Greenpandalover]

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

ooooo, this makesme happy. Disguiser will now be an actual treat to town now and I love it. Its a turn no one seemed to expected, and its better than just plucking it out of the game.

It says everynight, so Im guessing the 3 limit has been removed?

Now theres only one more deception role to be buffed, and well be all covered

Witch (buff)
The Witch will now see the role of the player they are controlling. This gives the Witch a lot more information to use their mind control powers more effectively as well as more role information to team up with evil roles or to trick the Town!

So a consig who makes people do things..
Tbh this really doesnt do anything to the loose killing roles, (SK, Arso, WW, GF, Mafioso, Vig),as the witch would just see who they controlled was based on who died the next day. This also doesnt affect the TI roles as controlling a TI isnt much use unless youre delaying them from gaining info. This hits strong on roles like escort, vet, jailor, and ret.

Escort, once they find the escort, they can control the escort to rb another, resulting in ruining two peoples night actions rather than one (Escorts free will to rb is the other person.)
Vet, keep controlling people onto them and hope they alert
Jailor, finding the jailor before a mayor reveals would be hella useful as its most likely jailor would protect/confirm with mayor the first night after they revealed.
Ret, finding ret early, and controlling them on nights you think theyd revive acting kinda like a escort of sorts.

I feel like this gives witch more info than needed. All I can see out of this is witch claiming invest with all the info they find...

Transporter (change)
When a Transporter swaps two targets it will display who was swapped to everyone in the town. This change is to help remove some of the extreme chaos the transporter creates without changing the way the role works.

~Pros~
Removes confirmability via wills for transporters
Another claim possibly made by evils

~Cons~
People cant lie about being swapped or swapping with someone (Its a poor play, but Ive seen it work a few times.)
If youre trying to protect someone with transporting, and you want it to be secret from evils, thatll be hard to do if they see the trans swapping the same person everynight (Before this update, the protected player would not out theyre being transed.)

Limiting Trials Per Day to 3
Some players have been using multiple trials per day to extend day time phases longer than intended. This change will also prevent Mayors from being able to infinitely prolong games.

I dont mind this, tho VPR usually never makes it past two people on the stand.

I don't agree with the change for transporter. That takes away claiming trans as a role, which has actually won me a game as a WW. It makes so that if an evil gets transed, they can't say "nope I wasn't transed its really ___ who came up maf." It takes away a lot of the chaos which is a lot of how evils win. As trans, its easy to read evils when they don't claim transed either.

This is a silly change that helps town and makes it much harder for evils.

I feel like it would help evils rather than hindering them tbh

"John was swapped with Lemon lastnight"

*Quickly notes down in fake trans will*

If anything, youll see 2-3 people claiming to be the trans with identical wills.

[YamiChan]

No evil is gonna claim Trans, though. There's too many ways to be found out.

[Greenpandalover]

No evil is gonna claim Trans, though. There's too many ways to be found out.

Didnt say it was a good claim, I was just saying its a less auto-confirm role, and now has upgraded into the "Poor claim area" along side survivor and medium.

[ceejayzz]

No evil is gonna claim Trans, though. There's too many ways to be found out.

I've won as ww by claiming trans. I've won as evil several times by claiming i was trans late game.

[icicle17]

Hmm...I actually like all the changes but the last two. Evils do claim transporter and claim to transport other evils to be confirmed by town. Especially in ranked, transports are usually kept secret and if an evil claims transported, then they have an excuse for the investigative results. Perhaps this change should only apply to all non-ranked/ranked practice games. As for the three trials per day, I'm not a big fan of this particular solution, but I do agree that there should be a limit of trials per day. I personally think the trials should be limited as a function of the day, something like day 2 has 3 trials, day 3 has 4 trials, day 4 has 5 trials, or proportional to the number of people left (or both the number of people or the day). VFR is a big issue but I think there are some situations where at least three trials are necessary.

[oliy]

Disgusier - aaaaaaaaa it's even less useful than Framer unless it plays itself like a jester. It should be obvious regarding disguises unless NK kills them, and even then there's weird graveyard combos so disguiser can be discovered. Just let framer make Mafia appear NS, choose invest results, and give disguiser Mroz's buff + blackmailing that dead player for a day.
Witch - Eh, give it an autovest too. Then we can determine its stance on balance.
Transporter - AAAAAA we need LESS confirmed town roles. REMOVE feedback and this way transporter is harder to determine, and with a powerful role it has some downsides.

[awesome5000]

Spoiler:

Greetings Townies!

We are excited to announce a few of our planned role balance changes coming with the 1.5.9 patch (as well as Turkish queues!) Note: all of this is subject to change as we go through PTR testing and balancing.

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

Expect to see these changes hitting the PTR very soon and going live in the next few weeks!

Witch (buff)
The Witch will now see the role of the player they are controlling. This gives the Witch a lot more information to use their mind control powers more effectively as well as more role information to team up with evil roles or to trick the Town!

Transporter (change)
When a Transporter swaps two targets it will display who was swapped to everyone in the town. This change is to help remove some of the extreme chaos the transporter creates without changing the way the role works.

Limiting Trials Per Day to 3
Some players have been using multiple trials per day to extend day time phases longer than intended. This change will also prevent Mayors from being able to infinitely prolong games.

Disguiser? Whatever, Mroz's buff actually kept the concept.

Witch? I'd prefer a different buff but whatever

Transporter? Well, evils can't claim transported. Also, what if people say, all transporters, self transport twice if you are transport so we can confirm you on day 1?

Limiting trials, good idea

[Greenpandalover]

Disgusier - aaaaaaaaa it's even less useful than Framer unless it plays itself like a jester. It should be obvious regarding disguises unless NK kills them, and even then there's weird graveyard combos so disguiser can be discovered.

I feel like this would make it better than framer because of the "steal result" aspect. Its more of a self-protecting role than a group protecting. Well, it helps group protecting in the way investigators start to doubt their results if they get too many of the same result going around.

Also, the days after the disgusier dies will be chaos for town for a few days before its noticable, so it gets the job done in my eyes.

Though to be smart, the disguiser should just target one person over and over if theres an invest in the game so the results wont change + the will would be easier to keep track then (Rather than pulling results differently everynight.)

Sidenote, please tell me the little notification "You've been disguised!" will be removed with this fix.

[RosalinasGalaxy]

I absolutely love the Disguiser rework! I hope that gets added very soon.

The witch buff is interesting. And will definitely give the witch more insight on how they are doing things.

The transporter....just...got mega buffed?
This not only helps confirm the presence of a transporter to everyone in town, but now no one can fake being transported ever again. Which means, a good excuse to avoid being prosecuted for an investigative result, has now been even more restricted.
While it does clarify the confusion, it also just made the transporter even more powerful. I thought we were trying to nerf the transporter? So why did you guys believe it was a good idea to buff the transporter even more?


The limited trials is definitely needed.

[KittGeekazaru]

The disguiser rework is amazing and everything that he needs, by adding a level of strategy and subterfuge to outplay your opponents.
The transporter rework is terrible and removes a key aspect of the character, by removing the ability to keep the transporter secretive and making it so that the strategy of 'transport yourself every night' is no longer good, where it was previously the best action to take in many situations. As a longtime ToS player, transporter is my favorite town role, solely because you can outplay your opponents without them even knowing. I understand that you want to clear the chaos, but it would be better if it was implemented in a way that doesn't compromise the secretive nature of the Transporter role.

Transporter - AAAAAA we need LESS confirmed town roles. REMOVE feedback and this way transporter is harder to determine, and with a powerful role it has some downsides.

A way that you could have the best of both worlds is to have some sort of "second will" that the game creates to record who the transporter transports. This way, when the transporter dies, and only AFTER the transporter dies, the information will be revealed. Part of the reason the transporter can cause chaos is because of the dumb transporters that don't keep wills. This would solve that while keeping an aspect of subterfuge that the transporter thrives on when played at a high level of skill.

EDIT:

The transporter....just...got mega buffed?
This not only helps confirm the presence of a transporter to everyone in town, but now no one can fake being transported ever again. Which means, a good excuse to avoid being prosecuted for an investigative result, has now been even more restricted.
While it does clarify the confusion, it also just made the transporter even more powerful. I thought we were trying to nerf the transporter? So why did you guys believe it was a good idea to buff the transporter even more?

This is not a buff. First off, if town gets transported, they should call out that they were transported, meaning that your point of "This not only helps confirm the presence of a transporter to everyone in town" is moot. Additionally, your point of "now no one can fake being transported ever again" is also moot, as the transporter would know that they are lying. A living transporter would call out the lie, and the transporter's will would make the lie obvious.

[awesome5000]

I absolutely love the Disguiser rework! I hope that gets added very soon.

The witch buff is interesting. And will definitely give the witch more insight on how they are doing things.

The transporter....just...got mega buffed?
This not only helps confirm the presence of a transporter to everyone in town, but now no one can fake being transported ever again. Which means, a good excuse to avoid being prosecuted for an investigative result, has now been even more restricted.
While it does clarify the confusion, it also just made the transporter even more powerful. I thought we were trying to nerf the transporter? So why did you guys believe it was a good idea to buff the transporter even more?


The limited trials is definitely needed.

in addition, transporter is kind of supposed to make the game more confusing and chaotic.

[Greenpandalover]

I absolutely love the Disguiser rework! I hope that gets added very soon.

The witch buff is interesting. And will definitely give the witch more insight on how they are doing things.

The transporter....just...got mega buffed?
This not only helps confirm the presence of a transporter to everyone in town, but now no one can fake being transported ever again. Which means, a good excuse to avoid being prosecuted for an investigative result, has now been even more restricted.
While it does clarify the confusion, it also just made the transporter even more powerful. I thought we were trying to nerf the transporter? So why did you guys believe it was a good idea to buff the transporter even more?


The limited trials is definitely needed.

in addition, transporter is kind of supposed to make the game more confusing and chaotic.

Transporter was originally a town protective role, but then degraded to support because of how much it messes up. It wasnt supposed to be chaotic, rather, a protecter.

[Jesoko]

While I agree that there needs to be a change to the transporter role, I don't necessarily agree with the change above.

Part of the thing that makes trans the worst role in the game is that a) people don't understand that it does not work like the witch and b) it messes with invest roles. There is not much you can do about (a) but (b) is fixable.

I can understand where the people above are coming from in regards to trans claims/chaos and evil roles. But since invest/consig/sheriff are three of my favorite roles to play, having a trans in the game makes it unbelievably frustrating.

My suggestion is that instead of declaring that people were transed to the whole town, you should make it so that any invest role looking at one of the transed targets knows they were transed. Whether or not they see the "new" role is up to you, but I can't describe to you how unbelievably mind numbingly infuriating it is to realize that all of your invest results were all wrong and you had no idea.

At least knowing your target was transed would alleviate some of the confusion. Trans would still be required to keep a will, and it would still be possible for people to claim to be transed and get away with it, or for trans to catch someone evil. Invest would still not know what the original target's role was and they will still not know who their new target is. All they would know is that they are looking at someone other than who they clicked on.

[RosalinasGalaxy]

I absolutely love the Disguiser rework! I hope that gets added very soon.

The witch buff is interesting. And will definitely give the witch more insight on how they are doing things.

The transporter....just...got mega buffed?
This not only helps confirm the presence of a transporter to everyone in town, but now no one can fake being transported ever again. Which means, a good excuse to avoid being prosecuted for an investigative result, has now been even more restricted.
While it does clarify the confusion, it also just made the transporter even more powerful. I thought we were trying to nerf the transporter? So why did you guys believe it was a good idea to buff the transporter even more?


The limited trials is definitely needed.

in addition, transporter is kind of supposed to make the game more confusing and chaotic.

Transporter was originally a town protective role, but then degraded to support because of how much it messes up. It wasnt supposed to be chaotic, rather, a protecter.

Hmmmm interesting.
But none the less, the original post did say "subject to change". So hopefully they see the problems with the transporter "fix", and do something else.
Like not letting him transport jester guilt is a great start.