Design Changes Coming With Coven

[dyaomaster]

I'm really sad about the changes to Witch in classic

It sound like you guys want the role to be less fun? I honestly cannot see a good reason for this.

two good reasons:
1) the witch never needed the ability to see people's roles in the first place because its problem was being rando killed early
2) it's getting a new buff that it actually needs

Both of the reasons you said are good actually are not good in any way.
1) The witch does need that ability to see peoples roles as it allows for the witch to have more claim space. It allows for a witch to claim investigator with some actual evidence to back it up. This isn't too overpowered as any smart person will spot a witching pattern and any investigator can invest the witch and call the witch out. It also allows the witch to be able to find potential allies for late game and also stops her from witching a medium for several nights.
2) the immunity for one attack might sound useful, but its more of a hindrance than a buff. All evil killing roles call out immunes as soon as they hit them, even survivors who claim day 1 still get called out in death notes. Its the same reason as to why bg is in a bit of a tight spot. He has the ability to be immune for one night, if he gets hit that night, the person who attacked him will call him out. Since he is in the same bracket as a gf and an arso, depending on who hit him, he will be accused as either a arso or a gf, which is hard to claim out of. Also, if there is more than one killing role, if both of them happen to target the witch, the witch will still die. Also, its only hope of surviving is by claiming survivor after they have been attacked, which is very likely to get them lynched.

My counter to this:
1) The Witch used to not have the ability to investigate others. Many of us played back then (what, 2 or 3 months ago?) and remember this time. You're supposed to look at what happens when you control someone, and gauge reactions. For example, you controlled BobJoe to Deodat and Deodat died? Controlled Purple to Mankey and Mankey was RBed, while Purple did not claim witched? This was standard procedure which the community was fine with, instead of being spoon fed information. The main complaint was that there was not enough time to do so, and this is what this change grants.

2) I mostly agree with this. However, it is easier to survive by trying to convince the Town you are good (even if immune) than try to survive after death.than

[sebastianelhefe]

If an amne remembers ret, will they be able to revive someone if the ret revived someone? And if they didn't revive someone?

[andixoxo]

If amne remembers ret, then, theoretically they could revive the retributionist and have them revive someone else (provided the dead retri had not ressed anyone prior to dying)

[HereThereEverywhere]

If amne remembers ret, then, theoretically they could revive the retributionist and have them revive someone else (provided the dead retri had not ressed anyone prior to dying)

Nope, can't happen. There can only be one living unique at a time. Also, Devs have said that Amne wont be able to remember unique Townies. Community hath spoken.

[mdb1023]

If an amne remembers ret, will they be able to revive someone if the ret revived someone? And if they didn't revive someone?

I believe they're making it so amne can only remember nontown unique roles.

[dyaomaster]

When are taunts going to be merit point purchasable? For all I know, "soon" could be "2019". When do you plan to let the masses enjoy taunts?

[Jerme]

Will you make the spy useful again???

The Spy is currently in a useful state, as it is not depending on the Mafia nightchat at all...

[LevinSnakesRise]

When are taunts going to be merit point purchasable? For all I know, "soon" could be "2019". When do you plan to let the masses enjoy taunts?

The amount of times people make these jokes is ridiculous and the joke is dead. Seriously, please stop.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Naru, I don't think dyao was joking. Impatient, yes, but that's it I think.

[dyaomaster]

I wasn't joking, sorry for sounding like that.

Let me reword it:
How long, in terms of time or number of patches, does it take for cosmetic items, especially taunts, to be determined as no longer new and therefore qualify for merit point purchase?

[Sirenfal]

I wasn't joking, sorry for sounding like that.

Let me reword it:
How long, in terms of time or number of patches, does it take for cosmetic items, especially taunts, to be determined as no longer new and therefore qualify for merit point purchase?

well while I can understand why you want these, having people just throw MPs at them will get rid of their novelty, and although the chances are tiny and most would prefer something else, you can still get them from the cauldron. However they are quite fun and having everyone have them would be awesome.

My question is: are we getting any new ones? (although, don't look at me for ideas)

[sunbird1002]

So, will BMG be concentrating on the Coven when it comes to new roles, or will Town of Salem still get new roles? I don't want Town of Salem to get forgotten, but I understand that this is a good new direction for ToS... Around 30 roles v 45 roles. But will Town of Salem go in the Extra expansion direction? Or will there still be additions to the original?

[quotevfreak99]

I think the Town wills are really useful, they help us to know any information a shy town member knows when the die, and also if someone is to afraid to be targeted we know the information from them.

[JazzMusicStops]

I think the Town wills are really useful, they help us to know any information a shy town member knows when the die, and also if someone is to afraid to be targeted we know the information from them.

Will are staying

Death notes are being removed

[BlazinIce]

I'm really sad about the changes to Witch in classic

It sound like you guys want the role to be less fun? I honestly cannot see a good reason for this.

two good reasons:
1) the witch never needed the ability to see people's roles in the first place because its problem was being rando killed early
2) it's getting a new buff that it actually needs

Both of the reasons you said are good actually are not good in any way.
1) The witch does need that ability to see peoples roles as it allows for the witch to have more claim space. It allows for a witch to claim investigator with some actual evidence to back it up. This isn't too overpowered as any smart person will spot a witching pattern and any investigator can invest the witch and call the witch out. It also allows the witch to be able to find potential allies for late game and also stops her from witching a medium for several nights.
2) the immunity for one attack might sound useful, but its more of a hindrance than a buff. All evil killing roles call out immunes as soon as they hit them, even survivors who claim day 1 still get called out in death notes. Its the same reason as to why bg is in a bit of a tight spot. He has the ability to be immune for one night, if he gets hit that night, the person who attacked him will call him out. Since he is in the same bracket as a gf and an arso, depending on who hit him, he will be accused as either a arso or a gf, which is hard to claim out of. Also, if there is more than one killing role, if both of them happen to target the witch, the witch will still die. Also, its only hope of surviving is by claiming survivor after they have been attacked, which is very likely to get them lynched.

1) There's other roles to claim rather than investigator.
2) With this buff, killing roles won't sell out immune roles as much at the risk of losing an ally.
3) It's unlikely that two killing roles both target the witch, and if they both see witch as something to be rid of, the witch deserves to die.

[blaze20k]

So, for clarification, the attack/defense system is coming to the base Town of Salem?

[HereThereEverywhere]

The attack/defense system is already in ToS. All they did was add keywords and invincible defense.

[DrZero11]

I'm really sad about the changes to Witch in classic

It sound like you guys want the role to be less fun? I honestly cannot see a good reason for this.

two good reasons:
1) the witch never needed the ability to see people's roles in the first place because its problem was being rando killed early
2) it's getting a new buff that it actually needs

Both of the reasons you said are good actually are not good in any way.
1) The witch does need that ability to see peoples roles as it allows for the witch to have more claim space. It allows for a witch to claim investigator with some actual evidence to back it up. This isn't too overpowered as any smart person will spot a witching pattern and any investigator can invest the witch and call the witch out. It also allows the witch to be able to find potential allies for late game and also stops her from witching a medium for several nights.
2) the immunity for one attack might sound useful, but its more of a hindrance than a buff. All evil killing roles call out immunes as soon as they hit them, even survivors who claim day 1 still get called out in death notes. Its the same reason as to why bg is in a bit of a tight spot. He has the ability to be immune for one night, if he gets hit that night, the person who attacked him will call him out. Since he is in the same bracket as a gf and an arso, depending on who hit him, he will be accused as either a arso or a gf, which is hard to claim out of. Also, if there is more than one killing role, if both of them happen to target the witch, the witch will still die. Also, its only hope of surviving is by claiming survivor after they have been attacked, which is very likely to get them lynched.

1) There's other roles to claim rather than investigator.
2) With this buff, killing roles won't sell out immune roles as much at the risk of losing an ally.
3) It's unlikely that two killing roles both target the witch, and if they both see witch as something to be rid of, the witch deserves to die.

The only other roles to claim are survivor and vampire hunter (ignoring the coven results as I am not 100% sure as to what they are). Claiming survivor is not a good option due to the fact that most people are less likely to believe a survivor claim after they are called out, mainly due to paranoia. They wont believe a vampire hunter claim if there has been no evidence to suggest vampires being in the game. And if there was vampires, depending on how many there are at the current moment, they might want to get rid of a vampire hunter claim.
Evil roles have a tendency to sell out other immune roles, unless there is evidence to suggest their role, e.g someone one claiming exe as they have hung their target.
I've been in games where serial killers have outed other potential serial killers, just so they can avoid suspicion themselves. Do you really think that people wont out a night immune role when they have the potential to be something much worse than a witch. If there is a 5 man mafia, and they find a night immune, do you think they would stop to think they might be a witch, if there are other immune roles such as serial killers or arsonists.
Depending on how many Killing roles are in a game, the chance of being attacked by more than one is a very high chance. Heck, there are quite a few roles, such as werewolf and arsonist, that ignore basic defence, so having basic defence wont matter against them. Also, if one person attacks you randomly n1, you are going the entire game as a witch who has no defence and has only guesswork to figure out what roles people are. Also, you say that the witch is doing bad if they get targeted by killing roles, not true. I was in a game where I was a witch, and one night I randomly got targeted by a serial killer, Mafioso, and a werewolf. It wasn't even like I did anything to draw attention to myself. Even if the ww hadn't attacked me, I still would of died with the defence as 2 killers attacked me. Sometimes, people get randomly targeted by multiple killers by chance, with no specific reason other than random chance. The immunity would stop the first of these random attacks, but what's stopping another one from just happening.
In my opinion, I just think the witch change is an terrible idea

[HereThereEverywhere]

The autovest was supposed to defend against WW and Arso I think, at least, some people suggested it that way.

Also, if you're Town and lynching a VH claim to be able to side with Vampires you're gamethrowing.

[BlazinIce]

The only other roles to claim are survivor and vampire hunter (ignoring the coven results as I am not 100% sure as to what they are). Claiming survivor is not a good option due to the fact that most people are less likely to believe a survivor claim after they are called out, mainly due to paranoia. They wont believe a vampire hunter claim if there has been no evidence to suggest vampires being in the game. And if there was vampires, depending on how many there are at the current moment, they might want to get rid of a vampire hunter claim.
Evil roles have a tendency to sell out other immune roles, unless there is evidence to suggest their role, e.g someone one claiming exe as they have hung their target.
I've been in games where serial killers have outed other potential serial killers, just so they can avoid suspicion themselves. Do you really think that people wont out a night immune role when they have the potential to be something much worse than a witch. If there is a 5 man mafia, and they find a night immune, do you think they would stop to think they might be a witch, if there are other immune roles such as serial killers or arsonists.
Depending on how many Killing roles are in a game, the chance of being attacked by more than one is a very high chance. Heck, there are quite a few roles, such as werewolf and arsonist, that ignore basic defence, so having basic defence wont matter against them. Also, if one person attacks you randomly n1, you are going the entire game as a witch who has no defence and has only guesswork to figure out what roles people are. Also, you say that the witch is doing bad if they get targeted by killing roles, not true. I was in a game where I was a witch, and one night I randomly got targeted by a serial killer, Mafioso, and a werewolf. It wasn't even like I did anything to draw attention to myself. Even if the ww hadn't attacked me, I still would of died with the defence as 2 killers attacked me. Sometimes, people get randomly targeted by multiple killers by chance, with no specific reason other than random chance. The immunity would stop the first of these random attacks, but what's stopping another one from just happening.
In my opinion, I just think the witch change is an terrible idea

If you get investigated. In that case, sk is very UP, because sheriff can detect it always. If you kill witch, you lose an almost guaranteed ally. There's never a 5 man mafia in a balanced game. If you didn't have the autovest and were randomly attacked n1, you would be dead. There's three killing roles in a balanced game, one which is townsided and has restrictions on their shots, so two. 1/225 first night, 1/169 second night, 1/121 third, 1/81 fourth, excluding lynches, which are usually against evils. You need to know everybody's role as much as NKs do. IMO, I would rather have witch have powerful defense towards all killers when attacked.

[bbykitty]

I would like an explanation as to why we have to pay to play the update. Ten dollars is a lot. Wouldn't it be beneficial to change the entire server? That way, you have more people playing what you updated. The likelihood of people paying for that is slim. The vast majority of your playing population visits using the public free forum yo have created. It seems as though it is almost a waste to create a new system and have no players. I played the free version that is apparently still under testing, and it took forever for the lobby to fill with people. Usually, it doesn't take very long for the lobby to fill. I think this is something that should be considered by the admins. Just an opinion. I think that the new game mode is fantastic. The new roles are so cool, and reading about them excited me tremendously.

All my love,

k

[HereThereEverywhere]

The new modes take a while for testing because most people don't know about it. Right now there are almost 8k people on the normal version, whereas there are probably about 500-1k on the PTR at best. It's not because of the DLC itself, that's how it always is. There are plenty of people who are going to pay. $10 isn't really a lot, and it's only $5 for anyone who has it on Steam.

[IvyRoseHeart]

This actually sounds interesting. I think it's going to make the game a bit more challenging but fun. I think I'll miss the Town Death Notes at first but as long as Wills will stay I'll be good with it. Looking forward to playing with these!

[SkorumpowanyGlut]

Achilles, is it okay if ALL death notes are removed? (except Serial Killer)

This should be eventually done. The SK is objectively the most boring NK so it would make sense that he has additional feature - the death note. I don't complain though, town deathnotes are gone.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Achilles, is it okay if ALL death notes are removed? (except Serial Killer)

This should be eventually done. The SK is objectively the most boring NK so it would make sense that he has additional feature - the death note. I don't complain though, town deathnotes are gone.

The DN isn't for boredom, it's because SK is the only NK who can't dispose of immunes. Mafia has a team to lynch immunes, Vigi has the Town, Coven has a team, etc.